Hello, friend. Today, I've got a real treat for you. We have one of our favorite guests, Traci Ibrahim. Now Traci is a therapist who does ERP. She's also the Chief Compliance Officer at NOCD.

But more importantly, she has some personal experience. Tracy and her children are both learning how to live a life with OCD. So let's dig right in. Welcome to the Free Me From OCD podcast. If you or someone you love has OCD, you know that OCD can hold you hostage.

OCD can get in the driver's seat of your life. Here, you'll find information, tips, and tools to put you back in the driver's seat of your life. I'm Doctor Vicki Rackner, your host. Let's dive right in. For those who are new to what OCD is about, could you begin by just giving us the way that you see OCD?

Sure. OCD is very different than the general public sees OCD as a superpower for neatness, cleanness, and keeping your hands clean. That is not what OCD is all about. OCD is about having obsessive thoughts, or images or anything that is haunting you in an obsessive way, and then you do compulsions to either neutralize or avoid or try to change, whatever it is those obsessions are about. And those compulsive behaviors could be it could be handwashing.

It could be checking. It could be mentally reviewing. It could be trying to replace thoughts you don't like with what you deem a good thought so that now you've neutralized the maybe scrupulous thought you had a minute ago. So seeking reassurance from other people, all of those kinds of things could be compulsions, plus many others. So when those 2 get together, you have your obsessions and your compulsions.

And I do like to say, because it it's often misunderstood. I get a lot of people who have obsessions and compulsions that don't have OCD. It's not that only people with OCD obsess and compuls, and I'll give you a perfect example. My dog took him to the vet. They said, this might be cancer.

And I said, okay. They said, we're gonna go do a test, and we'll let you know. And they came back and said, we're not sure. We're gonna have to watch this. So, without OCD, for instance, one might obsessively look online or think about losing their dog, or what does this bump mean?

How likely is it this breed of dog, could die from a bump? All the quest you could compulsively ask questions about it. You could, be doing all kinds of things. And so you could be obsessing and compulsive about something and not have OCD, as well. You just have a situation that makes you wanna do this.

Maybe you're getting cheated on, and now you're checking somebody's phone a lot or checking online or trying to figure it. Am I being cheated on? I mean, a lot of people obsess and compulse. It doesn't mean you have OCD. OCD is very specific, and goes a lot further, and it's not just one instance that that causes this.

So important to think about. We get a lot of people that come in. I'm having a really bad relationship. This is happening. I think I have relationship OCD.

Nope. That's just a bad relationship. You should go see a a couple's counselor. Oh, okay. Everything is not OCD.

So also good to know. And I imagine there are people with OCD who are in problematic relationships who don't necessarily have obsessions and compulsions when things go wrong. That's exactly right. And just because you have OCD doesn't mean you have every type of theme. It doesn't mean you'll never get it.

It doesn't maybe you'll never get it. There are themes I've never had. There's themes that repeat themselves. Absolutely. And, you know, that's where you have to have somebody good enough to assess the difference.

You know, I've I've had a handful of people come in and go, I looked online. I have relationship OCD. And I'm looking for the history. Like, well, what happened before this relationship? No.

I was fine. Oh, well, that sounds like a relationship problem. You know, a tough relationship doesn't cause OCD. That's not how it works. You're obsessing and compulsing maybe because you're being gaslit, maybe because it's just not a good relationship.

Maybe you're insecure. A 100 other things that could be besides OCD. Or you could have OCD and have a relationship problem, and your OCD therapist isn't gonna be the one to handle your relationship problem. Probably that's gonna be your relationship therapist. So and we'll manage through the OCD.

So Alright. Well, Tracy, we right before we started taping here, we were talking about people with OCD who don't know whether or not the past is as it was. Yes. That's that is a whole doozy right there. Not knowing what happened, trying to figure out what happened.

Maybe you remember a little bit, but you keep trying to remember. So that's and that could happen to anyone. Even without OCD, by all means, you could be just trying to figure out, did I do something stupid when I was drunk? Maybe I blacked out. That's real.

You could do that. Maybe you just don't remember a situation that well, and you're trying to figure it out. But people with OCD sometimes will take something like a real event. Like, maybe I went camping. Oh, wonderful.

And maybe they don't they start becoming concerned. Wait a minute. I wonder if maybe I murdered somebody while I was camping, but maybe I was tired because I did, you know, I don't remember everything about that camping trip. And then we start moving into what can turn into false memory OCD, which is the more your brain tries to figure something out that you don't have information for, you're a very logical brain likes to try and make it a logical situation. It doesn't make sense to not know what's happening.

So it'll start plugging little things in and sometimes big things that may have never happened. Oftentimes, it's not the situation. And then next thing you know, like, oh my gosh. I did murder someone on my camping trip. And then you keep thinking about it more.

Oh my gosh. I walked to the bathroom in the middle of the night. Maybe, did I come across somebody? Remember I walked by somebody? Did I kill her and bury her maybe and just blackout?

Or, sometimes people have a fear of I'm going, I am I am psychotic or I'm about to be psychotic or I'm turning psychotic. And, oh, no. What if that means I was having a psychotic break and at the same time, I, whatever, did something inappropriate, cursed out my minister, you know, whatever it is that you might think, had nonconsensual sexual relations with somebody, and now you're calling. Did I did you give consent? Okay.

Good. And, of course, now you're in the compulsive cycle. So something very, very interesting, which is why in terms of ERP, we ask people to stop trying to figure it out because it's just going to create a spider web of confusion. Now you don't know what's real. Now you're like, did this happen?

And you're not sure because now you have images or thoughts about it. Well, why would I have these images of it happening if it didn't happen? That's how your brain works. You keep trying to figure it out. It's gonna come come up with something.

And, there are a lot of people that end up having to do well, they end up doing treatment on things that aren't real. Imagine that. This happened to me when I was a kid, I think. Oh, okay. Now we're dealing with processing trauma that's not real.

Didn't actually happen. It's very problematic for people. I just got the vision of somebody just being in thought prison, how painful it must be for them and for the people around them. Absolutely. Because, when this happens and somebody, you know, comes to you and says, listen, I'm a really bad person, or this other person's a really bad person.

Guess what happened? And you're like, oh, that sounds really way off base. How could that be? It can be hard to get to even get somebody to realize, like, that's not the reality. Even though you have images or whatnot, you actually created these, and hard for the people around them who might even be involved in some of that.

So, yeah, it can definitely be problematic and painful. Even just watching somebody go through something that they didn't actually need to process because it wasn't real. So let's say that you see it in your child because after all, this is a podcast for the parents, not necessarily people who have OCD. What what do you do when you when you think that maybe your child is dealing with false memories, but they don't think so? That's a great question.

As somebody who's dealt with that, semi frequently, I would say it's it's really hard, but getting somebody who has OCD no matter how it's showing up into the right therapy, there are a lot of therapies being advertised as as evidence based that are not. ERP is the gold standard or exposure response prevention, and I would get somebody in right away to be assessed properly for what's going on and and help them get into ERP therapy. And then for you as yourself, just dealing with it. I know my heart is broken, about things, of that nature with some of my kids, dealing with OCD. And taking care of yourself is important as well.

I was really thrown off base, by something, one of my kids said at one point. And I just, you know, I I cried because we have the right to cry and say this is hard. And and I'm you know, the best I could do is is talk to my kid about it and say, listen. It's not what actually happened. This isn't this isn't a real thing that you're going through.

I hope that you don't process this with a therapist because you're just you're gonna have trauma in your in your baggage that's not even real trauma. You have enough other things that you wanted to deal with, that are real. But helping your kid to, you know, get get to some therapy, and all you can do is provide you know, if if it's something you can provide them information about, you can. Arguing with them that it's not real isn't very helpful. I took that route for a minute, and then I was like, listen.

Your reality is yours. There's treatment. You can do what you wanna do with it, and I have to sit on the side and have a broken heart because I'm a mom watching this happen to somebody that is my kid who it's very sad because, you know, I'm an ERP therapist and could very easily get you care for that. But some people he's an adult. Our my our children, when they're little, we can do what we want.

But when they're adults, it's a little bit harder. Yeah. Well, Tracy, you had mentioned other sorts of treatment for OCD that are purported to be evidence based. What are some of those so we can make sure to avoid them? Sure.

So I'm I mean, I'm not going to speak out against, any particular things, but what else I will speak to some things. So for instance, well, talk therapy is harmful. Don't go to talk therapy. Don't go to your usual therapy. Talk therapy, can increase the symptoms of OCD and actually make somebody a lot worse.

Going to just regular cognitive behavioral therapy, also, while that is an evidence based practice for some treatments, it's not very helpful for OCD because it's based on logic. If I can prove to you that this is not logical, you will stop believing it. And OCD is not a logic disorder. So CBT works really well in some areas, but not with OCD. ERP is in the general umbrella of CBT, but I'm saying that because if you just say, oh, good.

This person does cognitive behavioral therapy. They're going to be challenging the reality. And do you have facts to support that? You know, that's just not going to be helpful in treatment. There is, goodness, iCBT or inference based cognitive behavioral therapy.

And sometimes there's there's there are some people that come out and say this is an evidence based practice. But if you go and you look at the research, the research is mostly on inferential confusion, which, is and can be a part of OCD and could be helpful to work through that. But that therapy by itself is, is not currently considered an evidence based practice. It's not backed up by the IOCDF or NOCD or any of the people currently using evidence based treatments. It has some very, very early, early treatment.

It's a newer thing. But, really, one of the problems with it is that, it offers a lot of reassurance. And what we know about reassurance is that reassurance makes our CD worse. So sometimes people will do little parts of that. And I again, I'm not saying I'm not saying it's all bad or anything.

I'm just saying it's often purported as a current evidence based treatment that's equal with ERP, and that's just not true because there are no longitudinal studies, there's no meta analysis, the things that you need to make something evidence based. If somebody is interested in ERP, how how do they find an ERP practitioner? Sure. So, I mean, one obvious easy way is you can go to treat my OCD dot com, where we are at NOCD. We're in all the 50 states, and we are in multiple countries as well.

And we take most insurance plans, so we have payment plans, and we're telehealth. So if you live in the middle of nowhere, we can probably see you. That being said, maybe maybe that's not accessible to you for whatever reason. Maybe your insurance doesn't cover it or whatnot, or you can't, you know, pay for it. In in that case, then you just want to probably go to the International OCD Foundation, IOCDF.

They have a search where you can look for, ERP practitioners. So that could be an option. But what I say is always check, ask questions. I I, as somebody who has tried to find therapists for myself and for my kids over the years, I can tell you that most people, what they're advertising, online is not accurate, unfortunately. I was looking for an in person ERP therapist for an autistic child I was treating who I felt could just really benefit a little bit more from in person just to keep the engagement was a little bit difficult, for telehealth, which isn't usual.

Usually it works great, but this kid had special needs. And so I went on psychology today where most people go looking and I called every single therapist, in in that person's, like, a 100 mile radius that said they offer ERP. And when I called, I said, hi. I see you said that you do ERP. Can you talk me through sort of what your process of ERP is?

And the majority of them actually said I don't actually do ERP. I got one practitioner who said, well, I haven't used it yet, but I'm learning. And that was I must have called, I I kid you not, over 20 people. Some wouldn't answer, and that that was the answer from their, oh, I treat OCD. Some say, I'm an OCD specialist.

Oh, I like to call and say, what do you use? I don't say, do you use the RP? I call. Hi. I see that you you treat OCD.

You said you're a specialist. What do you use to treat OCD? And if they don't answer ERP and they cannot answer that, hey. That means that we're going to face your fears, and we are going to learn how to sit in uncertainty, then I just would move on. This kinda breaks my heart because one of the things that we as family struggle with is this lack of education about what OCD is and what OCD is not.

And it seems like we shouldn't have to educate therapists. That's exactly right. And and I wanna kinda give some some perspective on this. So when we go through grad school as therapists and even at people who are psychiatrists, very rarely is something like a whole entire OCD presentation taught. This is all the ways OCD could show up.

And ERP, I have heard of a couple of people who said they got a page on it. But I can tell you, I went even I didn't learn anything about OCD except what everybody else knows as OCD, sort of a germs contamination. Maybe people are obsessive. None of the it's more taboo themes were mentioned, not in my books, not in my studies, and ERP was never mentioned. And I consistently ask people who were therapists, did you learn about what OCD really was?

Did you learn about ERP? And they did not. So even when I came out, of grad school and I was seeing people with OCD, it was before I knew ERP existed. And I considered myself a specialist, because I learned how to work with young children with OCD, and, and it just wasn't working because we were taught CBT, the straight CBT will work this out. And I thought, you must be the worst therapist.

Your people with OCD don't get better. Also, your own OCD is not so great. I don't know what this is. So I did what I never recommend anyone do because it can be compulsive, which is research. I went on Google or whatever it was at the time, and I put, what is the most effective evidence based therapy for OCD?

And ERP came up, and I was like, what is this? Why don't I know about this? And I had to take it upon myself and pay for myself and put myself through training. And then I started using it about 20 ish years ago, and, I I had it myself. And then I started training people and they started getting better.

And I was like, this is weird. Why don't they teach this right off the bat? But I also learned about all the additional themes and Wayne's OCD could show up, which was also shocking and informative. Like, oh, that's OCD. Oh, I have OCD in that area.

Because I always thought OCD also was just sort of in a contamination OCD box, which I have, and my grandmother has. And my whole family acknowledged that we have that. There was no treatment, but, hey. Yes. You guys wash things a lot or do weird stuff.

But I was able to even just put my entire life into perspective. Oh, that was harm OCD. This is whatever it was, like, shocking. I mean, it was just shocking just redoing your life through a different lens. It takes I still do it to this day.

Sometimes I find things and I go, wait, that was OCD. I need to process my entire childhood differently, than I thought. I used to think I was a murderer, and that I was suicidal and turned out just to be harm OCD. And, again, because of wrong treatment, wrong diagnosis, misunderstanding, I ended up actually spending 8 years inpatient, at nearly 30 different facilities for being suicidal and homicidal when I was neither. So interesting ways that this can come out, and this is why it's important you go to someone who knows what they're talking about because you could end up, or your child, in more harmful treatment if somebody doesn't know what's going on.

I am so sorry to hear that, Tracy. Yeah. We'll deep dive into that. But, yeah, if you can only imagine, if somebody asks your kid, hey, do you do you have thoughts of harming yourself or others? Yes.

Both. Thanks for asking and noticing. That's it. It's all you need to go inpatient. If there are no follow-up clarification questions like someone who knows about OCD, I've I've had to call psychiatric hospitals to get some of my own patients out, who said the words, and and they they didn't understand that this was actually not something they wanted to do.

This is just the thoughts. You didn't ask them, do you really wanna do it? Do you have a plan? Well, yeah, sure. I've thought of it.

Sure. I have images of it. Oh, well, that just sounds terrifying. Right? So very important that you get to the right care for sure so that you don't get more harm done to you, as I did, which then again, I'm I'm not sad about it because I learned a lot of things about people with mental illness by living with them in acute and state psychiatric hospitals.

So that was interesting. Well, I just wanna second that. My son had been struggling for years, and we were on the phone one day. And he he just casually mentioned, oh, I avoid this certain bridge on campus because every time I go over it, I think about jumping. And it's sort of like, oh my god.

And I went through all this. Do you have a plan just as you said? And I didn't even know I didn't know about harm OCD. And, you know, so that was the event that finally did lead to the diagnosis, but it's scary. It's really scary.

It is scary. And and had he been assessed by somebody that didn't know about harm OCD, he probably would have been like me. Oh, we have to keep you safe. And it's very confusing and can actually make you feel, you know I mean, like I said, I spent almost 8 years, you know, in seclusion rooms being told I was harmful to myself and others, and it's all I could think about. And, of course, it's all I could think about because I wasn't being treated for OCD.

I'm in a little room, secluded, being told you're suicidal. So okay. Well, that makes sense because you said I am. You're a doctor. The therapist said that.

I'm at a hospital. I'm wearing a hospital gown. I can't have any stuff because you said I'll hurt myself. And, eventually, you just as as a person with OCD, you can get depressed. You can, start to believe these things, which, you know, again, nobody told me it wasn't real.

They said it was real. And I and I became actually suicidal because it was so confusing. I really didn't want to hurt myself. If somebody would have just said, but do you really want to go? No.

That's why this is so hard. I kept trying to think, how can I do this? But it didn't fit with my it's like, I that's not what I really wanna do, but they keep saying I wanna do it. And my thoughts tell me or show me ways to do it, so it must be true. And that's very harmful for somebody to have to struggle with.

How did you escape this whole situation? Well, it started, gosh, when I was about 10 and a half. So I turned 11 in acute psych, and I got out at 18a half. I would come out for maybe a week or 2 at a time here and there. And then they would re put me back in and I would only come out because I knew what words not to say.

But I was still very distressed. I'd go home and I would just be afraid, you know, that I was going to kill my father. So I would hide in my room and not come out because I didn't want to hurt my father. And I don't know why I was having thoughts this way. And so I keep end up going in and going in.

So when I turned 18, I was I was at a non locked facility, a residential facility, and I was finishing out my high school diploma, which, believe me, hospital school does not prepare you for college. Fun fact. And and so I just thought, you know what? I I don't know what this is all about, but I know that I this is not my life. I don't want this to be my life.

I'm 18. I could choose now that I'm not locked down to to get myself out of here. So I started talking, you know, saying all the right things, not saying the OCD things that I didn't know were OCD. Like, just say everything's perfect. I'm great.

I don't have any of those thoughts anymore so that I could get out. And so I just played the game so that I could get out, actually, and then stayed out after that and, and went to and then I just started college actually 2 weeks later. And I said, I have to become a therapist. One of the things that inspired me while I was in there is I need to be a therapist for kids and teens. I didn't like adults that much at the time.

So I thought I'm gonna be children and adolescent psychologists or therapist because there is no way that people should be treated this poorly. And mind you, I still didn't know anything about OCD at this point. It was just this this was awful and not helpful. So, yeah, I just sorta had to figure it out myself. And mind you, my mom is actually a therapist.

So she was a therapist since the time I was born, and she missed it. So, yeah. Ouch. Ouch. Yeah.

Big owey. For sure. So, I mean, you need to take care of yourself. Right? Yes.

But at some point, did you ever think about, I've gotta go back and educate those people? Yeah. So one of the reasons that I am so strong in advocacy, especially for taboo topics, I'm I'm known on Instagram as Taboo Tracy because I want everyone to know taboo topics exist. I want people to know OCD is not just hand washing. I do I do things like podcasts to get the word out there.

I I post, regularly on Instagram. This is OCD. This is what it is. You might be thinking of killing people. That's right.

You might have images that are awful, and you can have OCD go and also promoting the evidence based treatments and things of that nature, so that people can get the right help. Because most therapists are talk therapists. That's just true. What is a talk therapist just means we're gonna talk things out. And this isn't something you can talk out.

This is something you need to learn how to behave differently and do different things with your thoughts. And so, yeah, it's really I started doing ERP, about 20 years ago. And, I one of the other things I do is I work at NOCD as the chief compliance officer looking to make sure all the things that we're doing, are on point. And, of course, in my own therapy, I have never stopped being an ERP therapist. I will always I'll probably retire someday and still do ERP therapy because people need it.

So, yeah, it's just what a rough what a rough situation even for parents. If if you're a parent with OCD, that's rough because now it might be attacking your children. You know? You have thoughts about your children. If you don't have it and your children have it, you know, that can be heartbreaking.

So just a lot of information that needs to go out there for people so that you go to the right places and not the wrong places. Because I can tell you I've had over well over 50 practitioners, diagnose me incorrectly, treat me incorrectly, give me the wrong medications, And that's harmful because you can have your medical record. These things do not disappear. If you look at my medical record from that time, I have diagnoses on there that are so far off, and then you can imagine then the next practitioner you go to sees this diagnosis, and they give you medication based on that. Well, that's not even what I need.

So now I'm on multiple medications that aren't helping. I'm in therapy that's making it worse. And so it's it's really tough, as a parent to find the right things and to even know what's going on. And then what if you get a wrong diagnosis? If I have plenty of people like me, you know, what's wrong with her?

Well, she wants to die. She's very suicidal. Oh, okay. I had never thought of that in my life. What's interesting about that is my Pharm OCD theme started in a psych eval.

So I was fine. I was just a depressed kid with, you know, the usual stuff going on. Parents are divorcing and remarrying, and I was just sad. And, something happened, and I I was just really, really sad. And the therapist I had at that time, my mom called and they said, take her into this local psychiatric hospital.

We'll evaluate her. You know? Oh, she's crying. She's sad. That was it, by the way.

I was just crying and sad. That's all that happened. So we went in and they said, have you ever thought of harming yourself? And my brain, I remember very distinctly, almost it almost, like, snapped. And it started rolling these harm yourself.

What is that? Like, what do you mean? Like, did I pinch myself? Did I you know, and I'm not asking these questions. I'm just trying to process in my brain at 10a half, like, you're saying, Harm myself.

I don't know what that means. So then I start getting thoughts of different ways someone might harm themself, and I answer the question, yes. I have had those thoughts. I didn't mention it was just in that moment, because you asked and you put you know, it's don't think of a pink elephant. Oh, whoops.

Now I'm thinking of a pink it was that. That sort of thing that happened, and they were, oh, you have? Oh, and, do you have a plan for how you would do that? And I was like, no. I don't think I have a plan.

Okay. Well, we're gonna keep her just to make sure she's safe. I ended up staying there for 6 months. Because when they asked me more questions well well, yeah, sure. Now I'm thinking about it because you've asked me.

You put the thoughts in my head, and now I'm surrounded by people who actually a lot of them did have actual suicidality. That's why they were in the hospital. At least I'm assuming that. Some people who had made attempts, there were self harmers in there, cutters. And I was like, this is what they're talking about.

This is what they're and I thought, well, if if I'm that, then I'm supposed to be doing those things. And I actually started self harming, because it it made sense in that setting and by what they were saying. Like, oh, I'm supposed to be harming myself. I have that disorder. Okay.

So then I started cutting and doing all these things. So you can just see how one question set a bunch of things up to go wrong. So it is critical, absolutely critical that you get people, to the right assessor, maybe a second opinion even. Yeah. You mentioned something interesting.

You mentioned how once you actually did get the diagnosis of OCD, like, you had a new understanding of your past. So I did. So here's what's kind of interesting. So even as probably a preteen, I heard the word OCD because of my grandmother who washed everything 12 times and did all these other weird contamination things. And I knew that I had some of those same things that I had picked up from her.

So I always told people I have OCD. I just meant that. So I even told my practitioners who were evaluating me through the years, I have OCD. It never ended up on my diagnostics. Interestingly, it was only what they decided because they decided, who cares if she's neat and clean?

That's amazing, probably. So when I I actually had to figure out myself through looking through a DSM that was my mom's on a bookshelf, actually. Oh, well, look at this and look at this. These things are OCD. So I actually sort of found out myself and diagnosed myself.

Like, I already knew I had OCD. I didn't know those other things were OCD, and I didn't know the right treatment. Even at the time I looked through the DSM and read it and thought, that's weird. Maybe those things are are OCD that I have. But but still, it wasn't something that practitioners took seriously when I would tell them, which was very interesting.

So I had to like I said, I I actually didn't get treated properly, and figure out what the treatment was until I was 31 years old. And I have had OCD since I was 4. So it was a long time coming. Long time coming. And even to this day, you know, maybe every few months, I'll remember a situation, and I'll go, wait a minute.

And I remember my thinking and what was going on, and I'm like, that was OCD. Nuts. I didn't realize that was OCD. I didn't realize I didn't grow up extremely suicidal and homicidal. That's not what it was.

Weird. I don't even know how to process that, actually. But it's kind of a relief. But were you? And I'm like, well, I was some of the time.

Well, you were because of the wrong treatments and because you were in a situation that would make anybody suicidal after an amount of time being locked up. So it was really interesting. Plus a 10 year old defers to authority. Right? Exactly.

And and it only makes sense. You go to a new facility, they say the same thing. You go to a new facility, they say the same thing. And they're like, medications aren't working. And, oh, then it's then it's just you're just a hopeless case.

Actually, you're not helpable. Like, we've tried all the meds. We've tried all the treatments, and you're not helpable. And then that was how I ended up in a state hospital at Camarillo State Hospital, the infamous. I don't recommend it.

It's not open anymore. But interestingly enough, yeah, they were like, yeah. Just kinda go rot over there. It seems you're not help help help helpable, and they sent me there when I was 15. And there were very severe people in there.

And sort of to make it even worse, my roommate, she was a murderer, and it was because of psychosis, not because of any other reason. And then imagine what that did to my brain at 15. Oh, I'm in the murderer's room. That makes sense because I also could murder. So that yep.

And they don't care about us. They lock us in together at night because they figure, hey. Murders can just kill each other, and that would be fine. I mean, this is how I'm thinking because I don't know any other reason to put somebody with OCD, at a state hospital, let alone lock you in with somebody who murders people. So you can just imagine.

It was just completely, completely nuts, the things that that that misdiagnosis and mistreatment. What what can happen to you? And I was actually there for about 7 months and I got myself out. Shockingly, I actually took the hospital to court and I filed a writ of habeas corpus, which is the patient's right that you can do that. And I forced them to show evidence that I had ever done anything that was suicidal or homicidal since my stay.

And had I said any of those words, because I had learned not to say those words at that time, and they could not, provide evidence, and they had to let me out. So I came out, and then my parents put me back in a couple weeks later to a different place. So that was sort of this revolving you know? And it's not that I knew I had OCD at that time. It was just I was like, I have to get out of here.

This is crazy. What can I do to get out of here? Like, stop talking about it. Stop saying your symptoms. Act like everything's fine.

See if you can win in court. Maybe you could get out and see your friends. In the meanwhile, you're left managing your OCD sort of on your own. Right? Correct.

And and not even knowing. I mean, again, knowing I had OCD, not knowing that these symptoms were. And it was a very dangerous environment because there were a lot of psychotic people in there who were put there for a reason. There were a lot just a lot of people in there doing a lot, and there was a lot of suicidal stuff going on. There was, in all the stairwells, they had a special gate for if you jumped over, it would catch you so you couldn't die by jumping off of the stairwells.

So everywhere you looked, there was some trigger of this is about suicide or this is about homicide and just what a weird situation to be in when it's not your deal. You know? And I was like, oh, you know, I I asked. I remember, like, why are there those weird gates that don't seem to belong? And they said, oh, that's I remember the staff.

They weren't very nice. And one of them is like, well, that's to keep stupid people like you from jumping and trying to hurt yourself. And you're like, oh, thank you. I love that. And I remember even thinking, like, I might try it, though.

I might just wanna try it and see if that and then, of course, then OCD is like, you should try to jump and see if that could work. Maybe you could jump and miss the fence. Maybe you could jump upside down and break your neck. I mean, that's OCD for you. It's gonna come up with other options.

That's fine. Jumping isn't the only option. So it's yeah. And, I mean and you could be going through that personal hell in your bedroom at home with your parents, and that's what's important to realize that this can get really, really bad. I mentioned my homicidal OCD without saying it was OCD, at school one day, and I had been out of the hospital for about a month.

And I had intrusive thoughts that I might light the school bathroom on fire, but I didn't. I didn't. I I mentioned it, and then that got me suspended. And it was like, ugh. But I didn't do anything.

So even just sharing your intrusive thoughts out loud can cause problems. I appreciate they're trying to save the school, but I I didn't have any fire starting things on me. I didn't say it. I was just like, I can't stop thinking, and it was very specific. When I go to the bathroom, I look at the toilet paper roll and I think about it on fire.

That was actually what I shared. Oh, are you gonna light the bathroom on fire? Oh, hadn't thought of that. I just kept thinking about the toilet, like, the toilet paper roll going on fire, which turns into now you're a threat to the whole school and the safety of the school. And, again, if these these people knew what OCD was, they'd go, well, sit with the possibility that you might have a toilet paper roll on fire.

Oh, okay. Thanks. Appreciate that. That would have been a good ERP, intervention as opposed to going to the hospital. And now also you have, now now you have arson on your even though I never lit anything.

Now I'm a potential arsonist because of my intrusive thoughts, and I can't go to public school. So, I mean, it's just very, very misunderstood disorder. Well, Tracy, I'm so glad that you got out. I'm so glad that you're able to take this experience and help other people. Me too.

Yeah. And like I said, I want people to know. I want people to know what this looks like and what it is because the media is just not doing a very good job of sharing, you know, what this is really like. It is a personal hell and torture for some people. And, yes, you can also have contamination OCD.

I have contamination OCD. And to this day, it disturbs me more than my harm OCD, actually, believe it or not. So even just going, oh, good. You're so neat. No, no, actually, Actually, I couldn't use public bathrooms.

I wasn't touching money. I was avoiding things. I was doing all kinds of things because of contamination OCD. So don't write off. Oh, no big deal.

They just like things, you know, in a certain way or to be clean. That can be hell. You could spend your whole day trying to get something just clean enough or just right enough or avoiding all kinds of things and gave myself a bladder infection holding holding my bathroom, while I was at work because I didn't wanna use the work bathroom, things of that nature. So it can get it can get all kinds of things. It drives me nuts when people get excited about, oh, yeah.

I'm a little OCD. I vacuum in special lines or something. I'm like, if you have OCD, I'm sorry to hear that. That must be torture for you. How many hours do you spend doing that versus isn't it funny and cute?

Which I was getting my nails done a couple months ago, and that's they were closing up shop and they were vacuuming, and that's exactly what I heard. Oh, she's so funny. Look at her. She always vacuums perfect lines. She's so OCD, and I am big on advocating for teaching in the moment.

And I was like, pause. Do you really have OCD? I am so sorry. Is it OCD, or you just like to vacuum in lines? Oh, yes.

I mean, I like to do that and this. And I was like, I've never heard anyone with OCD say I like before any of the things that they have to do. It's torture. And then I proceeded on a lecture on it could be like this and this and this and this, and there's these different themes, and it's not funny or cute or enjoyable. And, of course, that just dead in the room, and probably they were like, she's the worst.

But, you know, at least 4 people heard, and I thought if 4 people heard it from me, whether they accept it or not, I did my job in that moment. Well, I very much appreciate you're sharing this story for the things that you do. You know, if if we lay people are just at the nail salon ourselves, what do you recommend that we do? Sure. I think peep you know, people are at different comfort levels obviously about speaking out publicly.

I'm just somebody I have no no problem with that. But if you're somebody who doesn't wanna do anything about it, you certainly don't have to. But if you feel like that is something an area of advocacy that you're comfortable doing, it can be helpful telling somebody, hey. You know, that can be offensive to people who actually have OCD because it's not really a fun, cute disorder. It's it's torture.

And I just wondered I just wanted to share that with you in this moment because it's it can be hurtful, because you wouldn't say that. You know, I have a little bit of schizophrenia. Isn't that funny? Because I think logically at times. I don't hear people saying that because everybody knows schizophrenia is not funny or acute or helpful.

And I, really want people to know even if you just say, did you know that OCD, according to the World Health Organization, is in the top 10 most debilitating mental disorders? And then maybe that will even that piece of information might help somebody. But just like anything else, somebody's saying a racial slur or anything else, you hear something and it feels gross to you, feel free to use that moment to educate somebody. Tracy, if somebody is in that hell of unmanaged OCD, they should do what? They should immediately, if not sooner.

Get some help. Go to you could go to, treatmyocd.com and get a free consultation at NOCD for ERP therapy. We treat kids as young as 5 all the way up, and we also treat other disorders these days. But, so maybe you have depression and OCD. We could do both of those.

And, and just make sure you stay on viable look at viable websites and and viable things like the International OCD Foundation or NOCD or or places that that make sense. And don't just believe if somebody says this is evidence based or I'm a specialist. Don't believe it. Ask questions. Always ask questions.

Because if you believe it, you might end up with a talk therapist who does you some harm. Alright. Well, thank you again. I very much appreciate your sharing this. Absolutely.

I love coming and talking to y'all. So friend, if you'd like to follow Tracy on Instagram, I will leave her handle below. I'll also leave a link to NOCD. So thank you friends for listening. Remember, you got this.